Saturday, April 7, 2012

Glutathione 101, Part 1: Cysteine Misbehaves, But Glutathione Saves

by Chris Masterjohn

New post over at Mother Nature Obeyed:


Enjoy!

Read more about the author, Chris Masterjohn, PhD, here.

28 comments:

  1. So would a little moderation in high cysteine rich foods be a good thing (yogurt, duck, red peppers, high sulphur veggies (garlic, onions, broccoli etc)?

    Although since cysteine can also be made by the body, maybe a diet rich in precursors is not good either.. methionine, vit-b6,b12, SAMe, etc.

    But is the derivative N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC) equally toxic? Or is it metabolized differently?

    I know it's often used to COMBAT toxicity.. everything from hair loss, to liver toxicity (acetaminophen (Tylenol) overdosing, alcohol induced Cirrhosis, ALS, etc), as well as autoimmune disorders (psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, parkinsons, etc))

    So in the end is NAC the super antioxidant that people claim everyone should be supplement with, or like cysteine limiting your exposure to it is best?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Eric,

      I'll address things like these in the upcoming posts in this series. Thanks!

      Chris

      Delete
    2. NAC can definitely cause problems. I suffered dehydration symptoms (dry eyes, mouth, excess urine) for a month before figuring out it was the 500mg NAC I was taking every couple of days... Turns out NAC is also a "mucolytic", breaking down mucous... I believe this was also responsible for simultaneous bloating symptoms I suffered -- by NAC dissolving/eroding protective, essential intestinal mucous, is my best guess.

      Was this an overload of NAC and/or free Cysteine?

      Delete
    3. Also, before discovering NAC as the cause of these symptoms, I had greatly reduced symptoms by eating more starch & glucose (oats & honey)... I avoid oats because I like my teeth, but this was just a test, and it worked! Deficient mucous? Eat more starch (if you're eating high-fat, low carb already).

      Delete
    4. I think a mucolytic isn't drying its "thinning" so if your eye ducts are plugged and can't flow it should thin that oil out and allow it to flow, thus helping dry eye. Or, it will thin out flem in the nose, or lungs or where ever else it is clogged. But I don't think it is a drying agent. I am not an expert, but that is my understanding.

      Delete
  2. I have a bit of experience here. The first antioxidant I used for chronic Hep C was pure l-cysteine, I took 1.5 grams. And overnight, my mood and energy changed; I can easily date my eventual recovery from that day, it was so transforming. I finished the bottle, went on to NAC and methionine, don't need either now.
    The point is, I was dying of oxidative stress, l-cysteine made it much better.
    (I had prepped with an antioxidant complex with A, C, E, selenium, zinc, mn for a week, but the cysteine was what made the difference, and did so within hours)
    Even glutathione makes me feel a little sick today if I take it when I don't really need it. As I never need it now I never take it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. have you ever been tested for celiac disease? I suspect you have it. Cysteine attacks gluten and also Acetaldehyde which is why you felt dramatically better. I myself am looking to buy a bottle of L-csysteine asap. I read for a long time understanding myself. I figured out why I was sick, and what was happening and read long enough for years to get this far. It took me three years to figure out what doctors did not figure out, and now it's not just about me having it. It's about acknowledging who might also have it with friends and family. Considering your post is on April 11, 2012 it will make you feel better but if you have celiac disease you will have symptoms in the future.

      Delete
    2. Well, chronic Hep C often triggers gluten sensitivity, which I do have (and corn, and soy).
      Wheat is Murder.

      But there's other pathways that cysteine would use to ameliorate a condition characterised by oxidative stress.
      HCV promotes OS:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11832451

      http://www.jbc.org/content/280/45/37481.full

      Liver mitochondria from transgenic mice expressing the HCV proteins core, E1 and E2 demonstrated oxidation of the glutathione pool and a decrease in NADPH content. In addition, there was reduced activity of electron transport complex I, and increased ROS production from complex I substrates. There were no abnormalities observed in complex II or complex III function.

      Delete
  3. Very interesting.

    I've been wondering about NAC and its potentially ill effects for awhile now. The more I read about it, the less I understand why anyone would seek it out, when raw milk or ALA could be used to boost glutathione.

    Right around the time of the first AHS I had started taking 600mg sustained release NAC. Several weeks later I suddenly developed floaters in my eyes and stumbled upon some articles stating that NAC cuts disulfide bonds - the very same bonds that keep the collagen fibrils in our vitreous humor happy. I could be way off, this could be a total coincidence, but it seems like this stuff is better left to the body builders!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting, Andrew, thanks for sharing.

      Chris

      Delete
  4. I'm thinking that if you have a condition that needs it, it's fine (indeed it's frickin' magical), but it's not worth supplementing "just in case"

    ReplyDelete
  5. Let me guess... you played d&d a lot

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Never have but thanks for guessing! :)

      Chris

      Delete
  6. What do you make of recent research showing choline is positively associated with heart disease?

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110406131814.htm

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Anonymous,

      Here you go:

      http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmasterjohn/2011/04/13/does-dietary-choline-contribute-to-heart-disease/

      Chris

      Delete
  7. I'm pretty sceptical about this.
    It's certainly not compatible with the reductive stress theory of heart disease.
    Perhaps the bacteria that do this are harmful in other ways; such as, their lipopolysaccharides.
    However, it may be that homocysteine is more beneficial than currently thought.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi George,

      Could you point me to any info you think is well written about the reductive stress theory of heart disease?

      Thanks in advance,
      George

      Delete
    2. Hi George,

      I don't understand your point about incompatibility with "the reductive stress theory of heart disease." I'm not sure what you mean by "the bacteria that do this."

      Thanks for any clarification you can offer,
      Chris

      Delete
    3. Choline, betaine, TMNO are all electrophilic methyl donors which can remove excess H+ in high NADH states (reductive stress).
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11348555
      Some studies have found high levels of NADH and reduced glutathione in diseased heart, the former would slow down fatty acid oxidation, the latter impairs mitochondria:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22202674
      An elegant explanation of the reductive stress hypothesis can be found in the work of Aubrey de Grey (Ending Ageing)
      http://sens.academia.edu/AubreyDeGrey/Papers/800503/The_reductive_hotspot_hypothesis_an_update

      Scrap the bacterial LPS theory as your article seems to rule this out.
      Lecithin used would be soy, high in omega-6 LA.
      I guess that rodents aren't used to high choline intakes, and don't eat much fish. Rats express choline oxidase in all tissues while it is only in human muscle (?) I think. So metabolism does vary between species.
      Overactive recycling of homocysteine to methionine (and rodents probably don't get much methionine or make much homocysteine) might deplete cysteine, glutathione and taurine. Betaine methylation may over-ride regulation.

      Delete
    4. Hi George,

      Are you responding to my article about cysteine? If so, I don't understand how your comments address anything I wrote.

      Chris

      Delete
  8. I'm responding to the comment about choline posted above; sorry for the confusion!

    ReplyDelete
  9. If this is Glutathione 101, where can I find Glutathione for Babies?

    ReplyDelete
  10. "Injecting them with glutathione results in a huge flux of cysteine through the blood, roughly equal to the amount of glutathione injected. "

    Could this mean that injected (or also an oral-liposomal delivery) glutathione could be a BAD thing? If it basically forces increased serum cysteine?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Sean,

      That's possible, I hadn't thought of it. I think the best thing to do would be to measure markers of oxidative stress to determine whether it appears to have any harm.

      Chris

      Delete
  11. Chris:

    I have a sous vide machine and have been trying to figure out if there is a way to cook an egg to a temperature that will maintain double bonded cystine but destroy avidin's affinity for biotin. Unfortunately, from what I have seen avidin can still bind at 158 F and cystine starts to denature above 150 F. I have found 151 F to be the best tasting eggs, but I am concerned that I have denatured the cystine but kept all of the avidin (not a good combo). Should I be lowering the temperature below 150 F or above 158 for best nutrition? Also, does the yolk have enough biotin to make the whole egg a net positive? Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Glutathione has a good effect on our body but when applying it, it must be via intake not external application. purchase soundcloud plays

    ReplyDelete
  13. Chris' link to Weston Price ( http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmasterjohn/2012/04/07/glutathione-101-part-1-cysteine-misbehaves-but-glutathione-saves/ ) no longer works.

    http://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/cmasterjohn/glutathione-101-part-1-cysteine-misbehaves-but-glutathione-saves/ is fine.

    ReplyDelete

To create a better user experience for everyone, comments are now moderated. Please allow up to one business day for your comment to post. In order to avoid the appearance of spam, please avoid posting links, especially to commercial destinations, and using all-caps.